[OT?] how to market an intro "docker" course that uses podman/buildah?
[DISCLAIMER: i hope this question isn't terribly inappropriate for this list, as it's about my wondering how to write/market an intro "docker" course but using podman and buildah instead, and i'm open to suggestions.] i'm a long-time trainer, teaching both my own courses and for others (red hat, for instance). a couple of my course reps have recently asked me if i have a docker course as some of their clients have been asking for one, and i'm torn as i don't quite know how to answer that. when i ask for more details as to what the client is really after, i generally get little more than, "they just want introductory docker." *sigh*. so here's my dilemma. a 1-day intro docker course is pretty straightforward, stuff like: * what's a container (as opposed to a VM)? * running an image * using Dockerfiles * volumes that sort of thing ... covering the above in reasonable detail can easily fill a day. but me being a red hat/fedora person, i'd much rather teach using podman and buildah, but then it's not really a "docker" course, is it? (one of the questions i ask my reps is whether the client really and truly wants "docker", or whether they want general container training? asking that question never ends well. :-P even when something is superior and cutting-edge technology, that may not be the selling point -- managers understand the word "docker" and, by god, that's what they want their engineers to get. one argument for podman is that, with the release of centos 8 back in sept of 2019, i can at least point at an enterprise-level OS that supports podman out of the box, which will certainly increase the comfort level, but it's still no guarantee. so, thoughts? for a 1-day intro course, the differences between docker and podman are probably negligible -- for advanced courses, yes, the differences will become more pronounced, but intro-level stuff should be safe. perhaps a proper title would be "introductory container technology using docker and podman", or something suitably all-encompassing. for people who do this kind of training, what do *you* do these days? the course itself is easy enough to write -- i'm just trying to figure out how to title and position this. rday p.s. if there are folks on this list who already do this sort of thing and have courseware and are willing to license it, i could be talked into that as well, so drop me a note.
From my experience as a writer for https://opensource.com, I would say that the term "container" is as potent (if not more, these days) as "Docker". It didn't used to be that way, but if I post something about containers now, I don't see an appreciable difference in engagement between what we used to get for articles about Docker specifically. I don't have numerical data to support this, and it could be an anomaly with just my audience, so take it with a grain of salt. I do think mentioning both docker and podman in the course title could be good as a catch-all, but I guess I'm suggesting you ride on the term "container", and mention podman, dockerfile, buildah, and all those predictable SEO terms in the course description. On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 6:44 AM Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
[DISCLAIMER: i hope this question isn't terribly inappropriate for this list, as it's about my wondering how to write/market an intro "docker" course but using podman and buildah instead, and i'm open to suggestions.]
i'm a long-time trainer, teaching both my own courses and for others (red hat, for instance). a couple of my course reps have recently asked me if i have a docker course as some of their clients have been asking for one, and i'm torn as i don't quite know how to answer that.
when i ask for more details as to what the client is really after, i generally get little more than, "they just want introductory docker."
*sigh*. so here's my dilemma.
a 1-day intro docker course is pretty straightforward, stuff like:
* what's a container (as opposed to a VM)? * running an image * using Dockerfiles * volumes
that sort of thing ... covering the above in reasonable detail can easily fill a day.
but me being a red hat/fedora person, i'd much rather teach using podman and buildah, but then it's not really a "docker" course, is it? (one of the questions i ask my reps is whether the client really and truly wants "docker", or whether they want general container training? asking that question never ends well. :-P
even when something is superior and cutting-edge technology, that may not be the selling point -- managers understand the word "docker" and, by god, that's what they want their engineers to get.
one argument for podman is that, with the release of centos 8 back in sept of 2019, i can at least point at an enterprise-level OS that supports podman out of the box, which will certainly increase the comfort level, but it's still no guarantee.
so, thoughts? for a 1-day intro course, the differences between docker and podman are probably negligible -- for advanced courses, yes, the differences will become more pronounced, but intro-level stuff should be safe.
perhaps a proper title would be "introductory container technology using docker and podman", or something suitably all-encompassing. for people who do this kind of training, what do *you* do these days? the course itself is easy enough to write -- i'm just trying to figure out how to title and position this.
rday
p.s. if there are folks on this list who already do this sort of thing and have courseware and are willing to license it, i could be talked into that as well, so drop me a note. _______________________________________________ Podman mailing list -- podman@lists.podman.io To unsubscribe send an email to podman-leave@lists.podman.io
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Seth Kenlon wrote:
From my experience as a writer for https://opensource.com, I would say that the term "container" is as potent (if not more, these days) as "Docker". It didn't used to be that way, but if I post something about containers now, I don't see an appreciable difference in engagement between what we used to get for articles about Docker specifically.
I don't have numerical data to support this, and it could be an anomaly with just my audience, so take it with a grain of salt.
I do think mentioning both docker and podman in the course title could be good as a catch-all, but I guess I'm suggesting you ride on the term "container", and mention podman, dockerfile, buildah, and all those predictable SEO terms in the course description.
eggcellent ... that's the way i was leaning, i just didn't want to alienate people who thought docker was the be-all and end-all of container technology. i suspect the only important distinction i'd make would be the cgroups v1/v2 issue, and make sure attendees understand what it means, and leave it at that. thank you kindly. rday
On 1/18/20 2:01 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Seth Kenlon wrote:
From my experience as a writer for https://opensource.com, I would say that the term "container" is as potent (if not more, these days) as "Docker". It didn't used to be that way, but if I post something about containers now, I don't see an appreciable difference in engagement between what we used to get for articles about Docker specifically.
I don't have numerical data to support this, and it could be an anomaly with just my audience, so take it with a grain of salt.
I do think mentioning both docker and podman in the course title could be good as a catch-all, but I guess I'm suggesting you ride on the term "container", and mention podman, dockerfile, buildah, and all those predictable SEO terms in the course description. eggcellent ... that's the way i was leaning, i just didn't want to alienate people who thought docker was the be-all and end-all of container technology. i suspect the only important distinction i'd make would be the cgroups v1/v2 issue, and make sure attendees understand what it means, and leave it at that.
thank you kindly.
rday _______________________________________________ Podman mailing list -- podman@lists.podman.io To unsubscribe send an email to podman-leave@lists.podman.io
I think you would definitely need something on managing the Docker daemon, though. I would figure teaching both would be the best.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Daniel Walsh wrote:
On 1/18/20 2:01 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Seth Kenlon wrote:
From my experience as a writer for https://opensource.com, I would say that the term "container" is as potent (if not more, these days) as "Docker". It didn't used to be that way, but if I post something about containers now, I don't see an appreciable difference in engagement between what we used to get for articles about Docker specifically.
I don't have numerical data to support this, and it could be an anomaly with just my audience, so take it with a grain of salt.
I do think mentioning both docker and podman in the course title could be good as a catch-all, but I guess I'm suggesting you ride on the term "container", and mention podman, dockerfile, buildah, and all those predictable SEO terms in the course description. eggcellent ... that's the way i was leaning, i just didn't want to alienate people who thought docker was the be-all and end-all of container technology. i suspect the only important distinction i'd make would be the cgroups v1/v2 issue, and make sure attendees understand what it means, and leave it at that.
thank you kindly.
rday
I think you would definitely need something on managing the Docker daemon, though.
I would figure teaching both would be the best.
understood, but i'm thinking of just the first intro day, and for that, i think just mentioning the difference regarding the docker deamon would be enough -- a followup course on actual image and daemon management could get into the consequences of the docker daemon. i already have a pretty decent outline for that first day and a sizable collection of online resources, but i'm always open to more recommendations for online courses or articles that i can incorporate. rday
On 1/19/20 8:03 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Daniel Walsh wrote:
On 1/18/20 2:01 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Seth Kenlon wrote:
From my experience as a writer for https://opensource.com, I would say that the term "container" is as potent (if not more, these days) as "Docker". It didn't used to be that way, but if I post something about containers now, I don't see an appreciable difference in engagement between what we used to get for articles about Docker specifically.
I don't have numerical data to support this, and it could be an anomaly with just my audience, so take it with a grain of salt.
I do think mentioning both docker and podman in the course title could be good as a catch-all, but I guess I'm suggesting you ride on the term "container", and mention podman, dockerfile, buildah, and all those predictable SEO terms in the course description. eggcellent ... that's the way i was leaning, i just didn't want to alienate people who thought docker was the be-all and end-all of container technology. i suspect the only important distinction i'd make would be the cgroups v1/v2 issue, and make sure attendees understand what it means, and leave it at that.
thank you kindly.
rday I think you would definitely need something on managing the Docker daemon, though.
I would figure teaching both would be the best. understood, but i'm thinking of just the first intro day, and for that, i think just mentioning the difference regarding the docker deamon would be enough -- a followup course on actual image and daemon management could get into the consequences of the docker daemon.
i already have a pretty decent outline for that first day and a sizable collection of online resources, but i'm always open to more recommendations for online courses or articles that i can incorporate.
rday _______________________________________________ Podman mailing list -- podman@lists.podman.io To unsubscribe send an email to podman-leave@lists.podman.io
One tool you might want to add to your arsenal is podman top. It shows things about the contianer like what PID the container processes are running , versus the real pid on the host. podman top -l pid hpid -> helps explain PID namespace Or the userid of the process inside the container and outside podman top -l user huser -> helps explain User Namespace. If you are demonstrating rootless podman, I like users to explore user namespace using $ podman unshare
participants (3)
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Daniel Walsh -
Robert P. J. Day -
Seth Kenlon