I don't want to interfere with the discussion and decision-making process.
I just want to express my excitement and say that enabling FreeBSD support
for Podman sounds to be super interesting. I can't dedicate much of my
community contributor time to it right now, but I would really like and try
to participate, making at least some small contributions to the subject in
the future. Hopefully, more people could be interested if you decide to
move forward and later after you do some community announcements.
On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 11:39 AM Doug Rabson <dfr(a)rabson.org> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 09:19, Valentin Rothberg <vrothberg(a)redhat.com>
> Thanks for reaching out, Doug! And thanks for your great work.
Thanks for all your help getting this far! While working on buildah and
its supporting modules, I have been particularly grateful for the
thoughtful and detailed responses to my many PRs.
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 5:31 PM Doug Rabson <dfr(a)rabson.org> wrote:
>> Over the last few months, I have been working on porting the
tool stack to FreeBSD, using the FreeBSD jail
>> subsystem for isolation. This builds on Samuel Karp's earlier work on runj,
>> which is a jail-based OCI runtime.
>> Since buildah v1.27.0 contains working FreeBSD support for building
>> container images and it looks like this will be vendored into podman quite
>> soon, I would like to get the much larger set of changes for podman on
>> FreeBSD into review somehow.
>> The complete set of FreeBSD changes is much too large for a single PR,
>> so I'm going to try to take this one file at a time. My plan is
>> 1. Add enough stubs to libpod to make it compile on FreeBSD (without
>> working at all)
>> 2. Pick a file from libpod/*_freebsd.go, ideally with the smallest
>> set of cross dependencies and make a PR which adds the freebsd file and in
>> a small stack of commits, factors out as much as possible of the shared
>> code between linux and freebsd.
>> 3. Work through review as normal until the PR can be merged.
>> 4. Go to step 2 unless I'm done.
>> Does this seem reasonable? It's going to take a while - my working
>> branch has 21 freebsd files with varying degrees of complexity.
> I would love to see Podman run on FreeBSD. But there are a number of
> issues I want to discuss beforehand:
> - *Who owns and maintains the FreeBSD code?* All current Podman
> maintainers are Linux people and I don't think there are free cycles to dig
> into FreeBSD. If it's only a single person maintaining the FreeBSD code it
> could be a threat to sustainability. Code must be maintained and evolved.
> Bugs need to be fixed. Same applies to CI systems and tests.
> Right now, it's just me working on this as a 'full time volunteer' which
is more efficient for the first pass zero-to-one phase (IMO). Having good
support for industry-standard container tools is important for the FreeBSD
project as a whole and is supported by the FreeBSD Foundation - I have
copied Ed Mast from the Foundation into this thread and he may be able to
comment on that. Personally, I believe that recruiting a little extra
support from the FreeBSD community will be possible if we can reach the
point where podman runs on FreeBSD.
> - Related to the point above: *How can we prevent the FreeBSD support
> from blocking Linux development?* There is a risk that changes
> (e.g., new features) to Linux containers may require changes to the FreeBSD
> code. I want to keep that to an absolute minimum, so we probably need to
> add abstractions in the form of interfaces at some places.
> This is a really important point. My experience so far working on a
prototype podman-on-freebsd has shown me that many of these abstractions
are already in place. In some places there are abstraction leakages but in
general, the code is already quite portable. Large parts of the code, even
code which currently is marked as Linux-only, worked unchanged on FreeBSD.
While working on adding run support to buildah, I was able to limit the
amount of FreeBSD-specific code to just 550 lines of code with more than
1800 lines shared between the two platforms. This isn't necessarily a good
predictor for future work but it's encouraging (IMO).
I absolutely do not want to impede Linux development. I want to do
anything I can to prevent that, through participating in code review,
consulting on differences in the platforms and fixing any breakage after
the fact to free up the Linux workflow.
> - *How can we test? *I have no experience in FreeBSD but assume there
> is a way to run VMs with it and plug them into CI. Many tests won't run on
> FreeBSD, so we may need a simplified FreeBSD-specified testsuite.
> None of the points above must necessarily be blockers but I want to have
> a common understanding and set expectations (e.g., the FreeBSD support
> could very well be marked experimental). I am mostly afraid that it could
> be a constant burden on Linux development and hence be expensive for the
> entire project.
Unit testing is also an extremely important factor. FreeBSD VMs are
supported by Cirrus CI and I want to get at least some of the test suite
functioning. At first glance, I think that some of the tests in
podman/test/system will work unmodified if I can supply a suitable test
image but I haven't actually tried this.
> Kind regards,
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